Handgun Radio 205 - Magmatics with Daniel Watters!

Hello and welcome to Handgun Radio! I’m your host Ryan Michad from the wild woods of Central Maine, and this is your home for all the news, information and discussion in the handgunning world.

This week, we are joined by Daniel Watters to discuss Magnum Automatics!

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Week in Review:

Ryan: working on a picket fence in my backyard & getting the house summer ready.

Weerd: had a ton of house guests over,  my house has been packed with people for the last few weeks.

Daniel: Check out the CNN P320 Report that lists more recent LEO accidents and injuries.

Drink Segment: Gin Cup (variation)

The classic Gin cup is

2oz Gin

1oz Lemon Juice

0.5oz Simple syrup

Muddled with mint.

 

I personally like that drink better with lime juice rather than lemon.

Tonight I realized that if you substitute rum for the gin, and rather than serving it straight up in a cocktail glass, you poured it in a collins glass over ice and topped with soda, that’s a Mojito.     So can you substitute the rum for the gin.

 

You can...but I really prefer the gin.

 

Listener Email:

Name: Oddball none

Subject: Beretta 21a and drink segment gripe

Message: Just finished listening to episode 203, where, among other things, you guys discuss the Beretta 21a Bobcat. You guys missed a key feature! Unloading the gun is fun. I've found, with mine, that if I hit the lever to cause the barrel to tip up and I don't have a finger in the way, the spring tension causes the barrel to flip up with enough force that the chambered round gets flung out and goes sailing down range.

I do have a complaint with the drink segment. The aviation sounded tasty, so I decided to buy the ingredients and try it. Unfortunately, I've discovered that cap on the Luxardo bottle is sharp enough that, if you aren't paying attention and pinch your finger in between the cap and bottle, it will quickly give you a nasty cut on your finger tip when closing the bottle. I believe the only solution to this is to demand that Weer'd make my cocktails the next time we meet.

Keep up the good work,

Oddball

 

Hawthorn Bush Removal:

X18 looks like a promising solution

Might as well have a little fun with it!

 

Hi Ryan, if you’re talking about just killing a bush, glyphosates such as Roundup should be a systemic killer.  It inhibits amino acid synthesis, starving the plant of necessary building blocks. Copper nails also kill the whole plant.  

 

Physically removing it?  I can’t help there, sorry.

Keep up the good work!

Robert

 

Main Topic: Magmatics - The Magnum Semi-Auto Pistols

Gabbett-Fairfax Mars (Webley & Scott M1899/M1900 and Mars Automatic Pistol Syndicate M1901/M1906)

Hugh William Gabbett-Fairfax

Long-Recoil, Rotating Bolt / Single-Action

 

8.5mm: 139-150gr at 1,550-1,750 fps
https://translate.google.com&sl=es&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.municion.org/mars/8_5Mars.htm

 

9mm: 154-160 gr at 1,400-1,650 fps
https://translate.google.com&sl=es&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.municion.org/mars/9x26.htm

 

.360: 155-160 gr at 1,470-1,640 fps
https://translate.google.com&sl=es&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.municion.org/mars/360Mars.htm

 

10mm: 160-175 gr at 1,300 fps
 

.450 Short: ~220 gr
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.municion.org/mars/450MarsShort.htm

 

.450 Long: 216-250 gr at up to 1,250 fps
https://translate.google.com&sl=es&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.municion.org/mars/450MarsLong.htm

 

.472: Unknown but proposed at 1,000fps

 

Forward-mounted rotary magazine concepts from 1895 to 1897:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189518686A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18970105&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189617672A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18971110&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189617809A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18971111&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189617808A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18971111&DB=&locale=en_EP#

(Note the high-capacity conveyor belt concept)

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189621664A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18971230&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189716855A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18980716&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189716853A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18980716&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

First magazine in the grip prototype in .360 Mars submitted to Thomas W. Webley (Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co.) in May 1898:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189809066#

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189809067#

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189809068A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18990415&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

Detachable stock (1898):

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189808929A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18990415&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

Jacketed Hollow-Point (1899):

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=189904426A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=18990429&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

1899: Webley & Scott produce twelve prototype pistols chambered in 8.5mm, 9mm, .360, 10mm, and .450 Long.

 

Original “production” model (1900):

https://patents.google.com/patent/US684055

 

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=GB&NR=190014777A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19010810&DB=&locale=en_EP#

 

1901: Mars Automatic Pistol Syndicate formed. At least 56 pistols were made, chambered for 8.5mm, 9mm, .360, .450 Long, and .450 Short. The 10mm Mars was dropped. A .472 Mars cartridge was proposed as March 1901 but its development was apparently never finished.

 

1903: Bankruptcy – Gabbett-Fairfax's patent rights claimed by creditors, and the Mars Automatic Pistol Syndicate continues under the new owners.

 

Improved design by Clement Brown (1906):

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19060927&CC=GB&NR=190525656A&KC=A#

 

1907: Production of the Mars pistol ends.

 

Kimball Arms (1955-1958)

John W. Kimball

Delayed-Blowback, Grooved Chamber and Floating Barrel / Single-Action

 

.30 Carbine (Other chamberings had been promised, such as .22 Hornet and .38 Special)

 

http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/55/lid/816

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1958issues/G1058.pdf#page=48

https://www.google.com/patents/US2781697

https://www.google.com/patents/US2846926

https://www.google.com/patents/US2870562

 

Fred Stevens (1957)

Gas-Operated, Tilting Breech / Traditional Double-Action

 

.357 Magnum

 

https://www.google.com/patents/US3069976

https://www.google.com/patents/US3143819

 

Charlie Petty's interview with Fred Stevens can be found in the Nov/Dec 1983 issue of American Handgunner.

https://www.americanhandgunner.com/1983issues/HND83.pdf#page=32

 

NAACO Brigadier (1959)

Short-Recoil, Linkless Tilting Barrel / Traditional Double-Action

 

.45 NAACO: 230 gr at 1,600 fps

 

One pistol built, with a carbine conversion (Borealis) proposed. Displayed and demonstrated with great fanfare in December 1959. With tepid military interest shown at the demonstration, the investors quickly closed their checkbooks. NAACO files for bankruptcy 3 months later.

 

Auto Mag

Harry Sanford and Max Gera

Short-Recoil / Single-Action

 

Auto Mag Corp. (1970-1972: Pasadena, CA)

.44 AMP (Production)

.357 AMP (Production)

.300 AMP (Prototype)

.45 ACP (Five known prototypes, but proposed for production)

 

Trust Deed Estates (North Hollywood CA / El Monte CA)

 

Lee Jurras (Auto Mag distributor)

.41 JMP

https://www.amtguns.net/articles/lee-jurras/

 

Kent Lomont (Auto Mag custom builds)

.30 LMP

.25 LMP

.22 LMP

.45 AMP (Prototype)

https://www.amtguns.net/articles/kent-lomont/

 

High Standard (Rebadged TDE production assembled with their input)

 

TDE-Ordnance Manufacturing Corp. - El Monte CA)

B-Series (Solid bolt and other changes)

 

Ordnance Manufacturing Corp. (OMC – El Monte CA)

 

Arcadia Machine & Tool (AMT – El Monte CA / Covina CA)

C-Series, Limited editions and custom builds

.45 AMP (1980: Prototype)

.45 Win Mag (1980: Prototype)

 

Irwindale Arms Inc. (iAi - Irwindale CA)

Automag II-IV

 

AMT (Irwindale CA)

Auto Mag limited edition

Automag II-V

 

Brian Maynard (Maynard Arms Company - Auto Mag custom builds)

8mm KMP (Eric Kincel)

.40 KMP (Eric Kincel)

.475 AMP

 

Galena Industries (Irwindale CA / Sturgis SD)

Auto Mag limited edition

Automag II-IV

 

High Standard (Houston TX)

Automag II

 

Auto MagX (Max Gera)

 

Auto Mag Ltd. Corp. (Excel Arms – Florence SC)

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3780618A

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3889574A

https://patents.google.com/patent/USD228757S

https://www.amtguns.net/articles/bruce-stark/max-gera-interview/

https://www.amtguns.net/articles/

 

The 1980s/90s vintage Automag II, III, IV, and V were unrelated designs, credited to AMT's Larry Grossman.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/USD316587S

 

Automag II (1986: .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire / Delayed Blowback)

https://americanhandgunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/HJF88.pdf#page=44

Automag III (1989: .30 Carbine and 9mm Winchester Magnum / Short-Recoil, Tilting Barrel)

Automag IV (1990: 10mm iAi Magnum and .45 Winchester Magnum / Wildcats: 9x30mm Dillon and .40 KMP / Short Recoil, Tilting Barrel)

Automag V (1993-1995: .50 Action Express / 1998: .440 CorBon / Short Recoil, Tilting Barrel)


 

Jeffredo Gunsight Company J-Mag (Mid-1970s to late 1980s)

John Jeffredo

Short-recoil, Rotating barrel / Single Action

Conversions for the M1911 frame

 

.45 J-Mag original / .41, 9mm, .308, .257, and 5.56mm variants added later

 

(We might mention the .451 Detonics Magnum, which was inspired by the J-Mag. This laid the groundwork for the later .45 Super, .450 SMC, and .460 Rowland. These also inspired necked down variants like the .40 Super, the stillborn .464 Rowland, and the .38 Casull.)

 

Wildey

Wildey Moore (with additional work by Bob Hillberg)

Gas-operated, Rotating Bolt / Traditional Double-Action


 

.45 Winchester Magnum (Production)

9mm Winchester Magnum (Prototype)

 

.475 Wildey Magnum – 250 gr at 1,763 fps / 300 gr at 1,533 fps

.30 Wildey Magnum – 110 gr at 2,315 fps

.357 Peterbuilt (.357 Wildey Magnum) – Originally named for Wildey employee Peter Hylenski – 125 gr at 2,370 fps / 158 gr at 2,123 fps

.41 Wildey Magnum (10mm Wildey Magnum) – 200 gr at 1,842 fps / 220 gr at 1,792 fps

.44 Wildey Magnum (11mm Wildey Magnum) – 200 gr at 2,027 fps / 240 gr at 1,740 fps

 

.45 Wildey Magnum – 250 gr at 1,730 fps

 

.357 AMP

.44 AMP

 

~1971: Moore convinces FFV to let him send gas-operated 9x19mm prototype pistols to Jeff Cooper and George Nonte.

 

1974: Moore begins filling patents for his new pistol design.

 

~1976: Moore forms Wildey Firearms Company, Inc. and contracts with Bellmore, Johnson Tool Co. for additional development work.

 

1977: Winchester reveals new .45 Win Mag and 9mm Win Mag cartridges under development for Wildey.

 

1978: Since BJT will not commit to full-production, Moore sets up own manufacturing facility in Chesire CT.

 

April 1982: First production pistols made.

 

Late 1982/Early 1983: Hostile takeover by investors results in bankruptcy and ouster of Moore. New company (IFD) is formed and production equipment moved to Newburgh NY.

 

Other potential investors side with Moore to create BPM Joint Venture (Bennett, Pennington, and Moore.)

 

June 1983: Wildey, Inc. formed to produce a new magnum pistol design, the Revelation.

https://americanhandgunner.com/1985issues/HND85.pdf#page=92

 

1984: BPM dissolved due to lawsuit from IFD.

 

1985: Moore contacted by Cannon Productions for original Wildey .45 Win Mag pistol to use as a prop in Death Wish III. As IFD currently owns the right to the pistol in that chambering, Moore proposes his new wildcat, the .475 Wildey Magnum.

 

April 1987: Former BPM partners help Moore finance buyout of IFD to regain rights to the original pistol design.

 

May 1989: Wildey, Inc makes public offering. Enough funds are raised to start new production facility in New Milford CT

 

1996: Bob Serva purchases Wildey, Inc. Wildey F.A., Inc. is formed.

 

2011: Wildey F.A., Inc. closes.

 

2015: USA Firearms Corp. purchases rights to the Wildey pistol.

 

2016: Production of the Wildey pistol resumes.


 

https://www.google.com/patents/US3988964

https://www.google.com/patents/US4208947

https://www.google.com/patents/US4221066

https://www.google.com/patents/US4291481

https://www.google.com/patents/US4373423

https://www.google.com/patents/US4638581

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20070306073908/http://www.wildeyguns.com/wildey.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20080704190846/http://www.wildeyguns.com/datafiles/BALLISTICS.pdf

https://americanhandgunner.com/1984issues/HMA84.pdf#page=48



 

Magmatic (Late 1970s - Early 1980s)

Jon Power

Gas-Operated, Rotating Bolt / Single-Action

 

Some suggest that it was the basis for Bernie White's Desert Eagle, but I have my doubts. The Magmatic was rather elegant, like an oversized Colt Woodsman.

 

.44 Magnum

.45 Colt

 

Coonan (Announced 1980)

Dan Coonan

Short-Recoil, Tilting Barrel / Single Action

 

Model A (1983: Traditional Browning swinging link)

Model B (1985: Linkless barrel)

Cadet (1993: Compact variant)

Classic (1994: Carry-Comp variant)

Classic (2009: Revised Model B)

Compact (2009: Revised Cadet)

 

.357 Magnum (Production)

.41 Magnum (1998: Rimless Prototype)

 

1985: Dan Coonan sells Coonan Arms to Bill Davis

1990: Coonan leaves company

1994: Coonan Arms files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. Purchased by JS Worldwide Distribution.

1998: Both Coonan Arms and JS Worldwide are dissolved.

2009: Coonan, Inc. formed by Dan Coonan, Dave Neville, and Gordy Davis.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4329802A

 

https://americanhandgunner.com/1983issues/HMJ83.pdf#page=40

 

Grizzly Win Mag (1982: North American Mfg. / 1983-1999: LAR)

Perry Arnett

Short-Recoil, Tilting Barrel / Single Action

 

Mark I (9mm Winchester Magnum, .357 Magnum, .357/45 Grizzly Magnum, and .45 Winchester Magnum)

Mark II (fixed sight Mark I)

Mark IV (1991: .44 Magnum)

Mark V (1993: .50 Action Express)

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4222308

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4253377A

https://grizzlypistol.blogspot.com/2007/01/arnett-patent-multi-caliber-conversion.html

https://grizzlypistol.blogspot.com/2007/02/arnett-patent-system-grizzly-technology.html

https://americanhandgunner.com/1985issues/HJF85.pdf#page=34

https://americanhandgunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/HJA87.pdf#page=94

 

Perry Arnett – Custom Browning High Power chambered in 9mm Win Mag

 

John Martz – Custom Luger Parabellum chambered in .357 Magnum

 

Magnum Research Desert Eagle

Bernard C. White, with later design work by Ilan Shalev

Gas-Operated, Rotating Bolt / Single Action

 

The original design is credited to Bernard C. White, who holds US Patent #4,563,937.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4563937A

 

While working at IMI, Ilan Shalev received his own US patent related to improvements to White's design: #4,619,184. Shalev was also a member of the design team responsible for the Negev LMG and the Timberwolf pump-action rifle.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4619184A

 

Eagle prototypes: Work begins in 1979. The initial prototype is ready in 1981, and is displayed at SHOT Show 1982. IMI is bought in to refine the pistol for production

Mark I (1983)

Mark VII (1989)

Mark XIX (1995)

 

IMI (1983 - 1995)

Saco Defense (1995 – 1998: Saco was bought by Colt in 1998, and later sold to General Dynamics in 2000.)

IMI (1998 - 2005)

IWI (2005 - 2009)

MRI (2009 - Present)

 

.357 Magnum (1983)

.44 Magnum (Announced 1986 / Production 1987)

.41 Magnum (1988)

.357/44 Bain & Davis (1989 Prototype)

.50 Action Express (1989 Prototype / 1991 Production)

.440 CorBon (1997)

 

https://americanhandgunner.com/1982issues/HMJ82.pdf#page=49

 

Taurus – Prototype PT92 in .357 Magnum (Late 1980s)

 

10mm Devel Magnum

Charlie Kelsey and George Reynolds

 

There was also supposedly a companion carbine.

 

https://www.google.com/patents/US4909129

https://www.google.com/patents/US4974356




 

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