Hello and welcome to Handgun Radio! I’m your host Ryan Michad from the wild woods of Central Maine, and this is your home for all the news, information and discussion in the handgunning world.
This week, we are joined by Daniel Watters to discuss Magnum Automatics!
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Week in Review:
Ryan: working on a picket fence in my backyard & getting the house summer ready.
Weerd: had a ton of house guests over, my house has been packed with people for the last few weeks.
Daniel: Check out the CNN P320 Report that lists more recent LEO accidents and injuries.
Drink Segment: Gin Cup (variation)
The classic Gin cup is
1oz Lemon Juice
0.5oz Simple syrup
Muddled with mint.
I personally like that drink better with lime juice rather than lemon.
Tonight I realized that if you substitute rum for the gin, and rather than serving it straight up in a cocktail glass, you poured it in a collins glass over ice and topped with soda, that’s a Mojito. So can you substitute the rum for the gin.
You can...but I really prefer the gin.
Name: Oddball none
Subject: Beretta 21a and drink segment gripe
Message: Just finished listening to episode 203, where, among other things, you guys discuss the Beretta 21a Bobcat. You guys missed a key feature! Unloading the gun is fun. I've found, with mine, that if I hit the lever to cause the barrel to tip up and I don't have a finger in the way, the spring tension causes the barrel to flip up with enough force that the chambered round gets flung out and goes sailing down range.
I do have a complaint with the drink segment. The aviation sounded tasty, so I decided to buy the ingredients and try it. Unfortunately, I've discovered that cap on the Luxardo bottle is sharp enough that, if you aren't paying attention and pinch your finger in between the cap and bottle, it will quickly give you a nasty cut on your finger tip when closing the bottle. I believe the only solution to this is to demand that Weer'd make my cocktails the next time we meet.
Keep up the good work,
Hawthorn Bush Removal:
X18 looks like a promising solution
Might as well have a little fun with it!
Hi Ryan, if you’re talking about just killing a bush, glyphosates such as Roundup should be a systemic killer. It inhibits amino acid synthesis, starving the plant of necessary building blocks. Copper nails also kill the whole plant.
Physically removing it? I can’t help there, sorry.
Keep up the good work!
Main Topic: Magmatics - The Magnum Semi-Auto Pistols
Gabbett-Fairfax Mars (Webley & Scott M1899/M1900 and Mars Automatic Pistol Syndicate M1901/M1906)
Hugh William Gabbett-Fairfax
Long-Recoil, Rotating Bolt / Single-Action
8.5mm: 139-150gr at 1,550-1,750 fps
9mm: 154-160 gr at 1,400-1,650 fps
.360: 155-160 gr at 1,470-1,640 fps
10mm: 160-175 gr at 1,300 fps
.450 Long: 216-250 gr at up to 1,250 fps
.472: Unknown but proposed at 1,000fps
Forward-mounted rotary magazine concepts from 1895 to 1897:
(Note the high-capacity conveyor belt concept)
First magazine in the grip prototype in .360 Mars submitted to Thomas W. Webley (Webley & Scott Revolver & Arms Co.) in May 1898:
Detachable stock (1898):
Jacketed Hollow-Point (1899):
1899: Webley & Scott produce twelve prototype pistols chambered in 8.5mm, 9mm, .360, 10mm, and .450 Long.
Original “production” model (1900):
1901: Mars Automatic Pistol Syndicate formed. At least 56 pistols were made, chambered for 8.5mm, 9mm, .360, .450 Long, and .450 Short. The 10mm Mars was dropped. A .472 Mars cartridge was proposed as March 1901 but its development was apparently never finished.
1903: Bankruptcy – Gabbett-Fairfax's patent rights claimed by creditors, and the Mars Automatic Pistol Syndicate continues under the new owners.
Improved design by Clement Brown (1906):
1907: Production of the Mars pistol ends.
Kimball Arms (1955-1958)
John W. Kimball
Delayed-Blowback, Grooved Chamber and Floating Barrel / Single-Action
.30 Carbine (Other chamberings had been promised, such as .22 Hornet and .38 Special)
Fred Stevens (1957)
Gas-Operated, Tilting Breech / Traditional Double-Action
Charlie Petty's interview with Fred Stevens can be found in the Nov/Dec 1983 issue of American Handgunner.
NAACO Brigadier (1959)
Short-Recoil, Linkless Tilting Barrel / Traditional Double-Action
.45 NAACO: 230 gr at 1,600 fps
One pistol built, with a carbine conversion (Borealis) proposed. Displayed and demonstrated with great fanfare in December 1959. With tepid military interest shown at the demonstration, the investors quickly closed their checkbooks. NAACO files for bankruptcy 3 months later.
Harry Sanford and Max Gera
Short-Recoil / Single-Action
Auto Mag Corp. (1970-1972: Pasadena, CA)
.44 AMP (Production)
.357 AMP (Production)
.300 AMP (Prototype)
.45 ACP (Five known prototypes, but proposed for production)
Trust Deed Estates (North Hollywood CA / El Monte CA)
Lee Jurras (Auto Mag distributor)
Kent Lomont (Auto Mag custom builds)
.45 AMP (Prototype)
High Standard (Rebadged TDE production assembled with their input)
TDE-Ordnance Manufacturing Corp. - El Monte CA)
B-Series (Solid bolt and other changes)
Ordnance Manufacturing Corp. (OMC – El Monte CA)
Arcadia Machine & Tool (AMT – El Monte CA / Covina CA)
C-Series, Limited editions and custom builds
.45 AMP (1980: Prototype)
.45 Win Mag (1980: Prototype)
Irwindale Arms Inc. (iAi - Irwindale CA)
AMT (Irwindale CA)
Auto Mag limited edition
Brian Maynard (Maynard Arms Company - Auto Mag custom builds)
8mm KMP (Eric Kincel)
.40 KMP (Eric Kincel)
Galena Industries (Irwindale CA / Sturgis SD)
Auto Mag limited edition
High Standard (Houston TX)
Auto MagX (Max Gera)
Auto Mag Ltd. Corp. (Excel Arms – Florence SC)
The 1980s/90s vintage Automag II, III, IV, and V were unrelated designs, credited to AMT's Larry Grossman.
Automag II (1986: .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire / Delayed Blowback)
Automag III (1989: .30 Carbine and 9mm Winchester Magnum / Short-Recoil, Tilting Barrel)
Automag IV (1990: 10mm iAi Magnum and .45 Winchester Magnum / Wildcats: 9x30mm Dillon and .40 KMP / Short Recoil, Tilting Barrel)
Automag V (1993-1995: .50 Action Express / 1998: .440 CorBon / Short Recoil, Tilting Barrel)
Jeffredo Gunsight Company J-Mag (Mid-1970s to late 1980s)
Short-recoil, Rotating barrel / Single Action
Conversions for the M1911 frame
.45 J-Mag original / .41, 9mm, .308, .257, and 5.56mm variants added later
(We might mention the .451 Detonics Magnum, which was inspired by the J-Mag. This laid the groundwork for the later .45 Super, .450 SMC, and .460 Rowland. These also inspired necked down variants like the .40 Super, the stillborn .464 Rowland, and the .38 Casull.)
Wildey Moore (with additional work by Bob Hillberg)
Gas-operated, Rotating Bolt / Traditional Double-Action
.45 Winchester Magnum (Production)
9mm Winchester Magnum (Prototype)
.475 Wildey Magnum – 250 gr at 1,763 fps / 300 gr at 1,533 fps
.30 Wildey Magnum – 110 gr at 2,315 fps
.357 Peterbuilt (.357 Wildey Magnum) – Originally named for Wildey employee Peter Hylenski – 125 gr at 2,370 fps / 158 gr at 2,123 fps
.41 Wildey Magnum (10mm Wildey Magnum) – 200 gr at 1,842 fps / 220 gr at 1,792 fps
.44 Wildey Magnum (11mm Wildey Magnum) – 200 gr at 2,027 fps / 240 gr at 1,740 fps
.45 Wildey Magnum – 250 gr at 1,730 fps
~1971: Moore convinces FFV to let him send gas-operated 9x19mm prototype pistols to Jeff Cooper and George Nonte.
1974: Moore begins filling patents for his new pistol design.
~1976: Moore forms Wildey Firearms Company, Inc. and contracts with Bellmore, Johnson Tool Co. for additional development work.
1977: Winchester reveals new .45 Win Mag and 9mm Win Mag cartridges under development for Wildey.
1978: Since BJT will not commit to full-production, Moore sets up own manufacturing facility in Chesire CT.
April 1982: First production pistols made.
Late 1982/Early 1983: Hostile takeover by investors results in bankruptcy and ouster of Moore. New company (IFD) is formed and production equipment moved to Newburgh NY.
Other potential investors side with Moore to create BPM Joint Venture (Bennett, Pennington, and Moore.)
June 1983: Wildey, Inc. formed to produce a new magnum pistol design, the Revelation.
1984: BPM dissolved due to lawsuit from IFD.
1985: Moore contacted by Cannon Productions for original Wildey .45 Win Mag pistol to use as a prop in Death Wish III. As IFD currently owns the right to the pistol in that chambering, Moore proposes his new wildcat, the .475 Wildey Magnum.
April 1987: Former BPM partners help Moore finance buyout of IFD to regain rights to the original pistol design.
May 1989: Wildey, Inc makes public offering. Enough funds are raised to start new production facility in New Milford CT
1996: Bob Serva purchases Wildey, Inc. Wildey F.A., Inc. is formed.
2011: Wildey F.A., Inc. closes.
2015: USA Firearms Corp. purchases rights to the Wildey pistol.
2016: Production of the Wildey pistol resumes.
Magmatic (Late 1970s - Early 1980s)
Gas-Operated, Rotating Bolt / Single-Action
Some suggest that it was the basis for Bernie White's Desert Eagle, but I have my doubts. The Magmatic was rather elegant, like an oversized Colt Woodsman.
Coonan (Announced 1980)
Short-Recoil, Tilting Barrel / Single Action
Model A (1983: Traditional Browning swinging link)
Model B (1985: Linkless barrel)
Cadet (1993: Compact variant)
Classic (1994: Carry-Comp variant)
Classic (2009: Revised Model B)
Compact (2009: Revised Cadet)
.357 Magnum (Production)
.41 Magnum (1998: Rimless Prototype)
1985: Dan Coonan sells Coonan Arms to Bill Davis
1990: Coonan leaves company
1994: Coonan Arms files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. Purchased by JS Worldwide Distribution.
1998: Both Coonan Arms and JS Worldwide are dissolved.
2009: Coonan, Inc. formed by Dan Coonan, Dave Neville, and Gordy Davis.
Grizzly Win Mag (1982: North American Mfg. / 1983-1999: LAR)
Short-Recoil, Tilting Barrel / Single Action
Mark I (9mm Winchester Magnum, .357 Magnum, .357/45 Grizzly Magnum, and .45 Winchester Magnum)
Mark II (fixed sight Mark I)
Mark IV (1991: .44 Magnum)
Mark V (1993: .50 Action Express)
Perry Arnett – Custom Browning High Power chambered in 9mm Win Mag
John Martz – Custom Luger Parabellum chambered in .357 Magnum
Magnum Research Desert Eagle
Bernard C. White, with later design work by Ilan Shalev
Gas-Operated, Rotating Bolt / Single Action
The original design is credited to Bernard C. White, who holds US Patent #4,563,937.
While working at IMI, Ilan Shalev received his own US patent related to improvements to White's design: #4,619,184. Shalev was also a member of the design team responsible for the Negev LMG and the Timberwolf pump-action rifle.
Eagle prototypes: Work begins in 1979. The initial prototype is ready in 1981, and is displayed at SHOT Show 1982. IMI is bought in to refine the pistol for production
Mark I (1983)
Mark VII (1989)
Mark XIX (1995)
IMI (1983 - 1995)
Saco Defense (1995 – 1998: Saco was bought by Colt in 1998, and later sold to General Dynamics in 2000.)
IMI (1998 - 2005)
IWI (2005 - 2009)
MRI (2009 - Present)
.357 Magnum (1983)
.44 Magnum (Announced 1986 / Production 1987)
.41 Magnum (1988)
.357/44 Bain & Davis (1989 Prototype)
.50 Action Express (1989 Prototype / 1991 Production)
.440 CorBon (1997)
Taurus – Prototype PT92 in .357 Magnum (Late 1980s)
10mm Devel Magnum
Charlie Kelsey and George Reynolds
There was also supposedly a companion carbine.
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Daniel Watters www.looserounds.com 5.56timeline
Until Next week, have fun & SAFE SHOOTING!