ARP 113 - An in Depth Look at 80% Lowers with 80% Arms, Inc


Welcome to Episode #113 of the AR15 Podcast. I’m your host Reed Snyder and with me tonight is my co-host J.W. Ramp.  This is the podcast about your favorite black rifle!  This show is for you; whether you're building your first AR or you’ve been building ARs for years. There is something we can all do to take our black rifle to the next level. Brownells helps make this show possible.

Don’t forget that Brownells, with their 100% lifetime satisfaction guarantee, is there for you anytime you have a problem, like when you can’t remove the taper pins from your new barrel to slip off the front sight base and you now have to find a new barrel.

Brownells Edge Program

Shop for AR-15 parts at Brownells.  Go to:

Main Topic: 80% Lowers with 80% Arms, Inc.

  1. Definitions
  1. Tools and Equipment
    1. Router/Drill Press?
    2. Bits?
    3. Which router to use? Answer
  1. Machining Your Lower
  1. Finishout
  1. General Thoughts

Video from NSZ85 -

The AR-15 Giveaway Winner:

Congrats to Hunter, our second giveaway winner!

Hunter’s rifle is in the hands of the FFL and on its way.


Thomas G:  Thomas wrote in to encourage you to contact your legislators and let them know what you think about the ATF’s possible ban.

Gunrunr82:  Man, so awesome to hear this episode with FN. I'm a huge FN fan myself. Started with the purchase of my FNX9 and my latest purchase was the SCAR 17. Anything with their name on it is of interest to me. Could listen to this episode a dozen times.

Hunter C:  Thanks for the heads up Mr. Snyder. I'll be like a kid on Christmas eve till I fill out the paperwork and get it home! I look forward to seeing what it can do on the range. I'll make sure to send you an update after I test it out. Thanks again for the opportunity to win this gun, and please let Brownells know how thankful I am for their generosity in sponsoring this giveaway.

Tom J:  Hey Reed, Any word on when the AR15 podcast is going to do a show on the 80% lowers. Once again great show and keep up the good work.

Thomas G:  Hi Reed, JW & Anthony, Thanks for your feedback on my question about sight for my SBR. I understand that sight radius is not that great on SBR I am not looking for a long range rifle, I have better AR's configured for that.  As I had no experience shooting an SBR I am thankful to get your feedback.  I was thinking the XS big dot sight for point shooting out to 100m, thanks for sharing the info on the review before I spent the $130 for them.   When I built the SBR I had envisioned it would be for home defense, using it some fighting rifle training and shooting out to a max of 150m. Eventually doing some suppressed hog hunting.  Having said that what is your opinion on size of red dot should I utilize for close target acquisition and out to 150m, the 2 MOA or 4 MOA?

The only real experience I have with a red dot is the 4 MOA Vortex Strikefire just shooting paper from 25m to 100m and occasionally shooting 8 inch steel at 100m 200m and 300m from a sitting and standing position.

On another note I heard some snickering when you read my inquiry into talking about other chamber offerings.  I thought it might be interesting to hear from a guest that might have experience in those calibers.  I first started reading about 300 BLK and got caught up in the hype. So I built the first of my many AR's in 300 BLK in 2013.  (I now think I would have been better off staying in 223/5.56 but going with a 77gr since I don't shoot suppressed yet)  Before I spend money building the next fad I would like to see what others think of their AR's in other not so common calibers and what they are using them for.

I attached the photo again of the SBR with 10.5" barrel.  Next pic will have a Aimpoint but waiting on your discussion on 2 MOA vs 4 MOA.

Kevin C:  I have learned a lot about AR's listening to this podcast, but I dread playing it each week. Many of the podcasts I enjoy are about 45 minutes, like Michael Bane and The Gun Dudes. Maybe it takes more work to tighten it up, but the result is better. Another peeve is the audio stretch marks. Not sure if that is a Skype artifact or Reed's method of talking.

On the other hand, I really enjoyed and learned from the Marines talking optics and the Keymod episode. I just finished my second build in 6.8 SPC and have parts for more.  I meant this as constructive criticism, thanks for what you do and keep podcasting and improving.


ARP 055 - Optics, a Different Perspective Part 1

Reed talks optics with fellow Marines

Welcome to Episode #055 of the AR15 Podcast.  I’m your host Reed Snyder and with us are several Marine guests. This is the podcast about your favorite black rifle!  This show is for you; whether you're building your first AR or you’ve been building ARs for years. There is something we can all do to take our black rifle to the next level.

Otis Ripcord Giveaway

For times in the field when you just can’t reach your Otis cleaning system and need a quick and effective clean – reach for the Ripcord®. This convenient tool cleans from Breech-to-Muzzle® in one quick and easy pass. The molded rubberized core and Nomex® fibers together create a more effective way to trap and remove fouling.

Winner: Scott H

Reed and Tony,

I just wanted to thank you for the time and energy that you put into the AR15 podcast. I find it very informative and a helpful learning tool for the AR15 platform. I have pretty much been listening to your podcast and most all of the other podcast on the Firearm Radio Network for a year now. I have to say they are all entertaining and educational. I know it takes a lot of time and dedication to keep the network going and I for one, appreciate it!!!

Please enter me in the Otis Ripcord give-away.

Thanks, again

  • Brownells helps make this show possible.
  • They are there for you anytime you make a mistake, like when Jake shoots a spring across the room into his shag carpet.
  • Shop for AR-15 parts at Brownells.  Go to:

Tip of the Week:  Drinking Tips from Marines

  1. Franzia is not an acceptable beverage
  2. If you want to drink with a Marine,  learn to drink whiskey
  3. When at Fort Knox - Go to the Makers Mark Distillery
  4. Never get caught drinking in your squad bay

Main Topic

A USMC Look at Optics

 Listener Feedback

 War13usaf: Enjoyed your last episode very much and it hit home. I am an Air Traffic Controller as well with 11 years active duty, but am currently studying gunsmithing through Sonoran Desert Institute. I have been itching to trade career paths, but it might be too late for me as I\'m 29 and still have 2 years left on my contract. it was good to here a fellow controller and service member excel in another field. Any story can be inspiration to someone else!

Nathan:  You guys have a great podcast idea here.  Also, thank you for having a feedback email.  I enjoy most of your podcasts quite a bit, but would like to discuss some specific things about the AR Optics edition.  First, I think this is a very important subject which you guys knocked the ice off of, but now it is time to open the beer!  Maybe I can add some perspective here that is slightly different than the podcast showed.

First, my optics philosophy

Setting up your rifle's optical system involves developing a specific purpose, clearly developing a spec for that purpose, evaluating every scope in the market that meets 90+% of the purpose(online and in hand if possible), set a general +/- $100 price range and dive into the optical decisions to get the market narrowed down to 1 choice.

The market seems to have 10 of everything, but there are really only a few scopes out there for any well defined purpose.  I will go through my AR optics choice made recently in the end.

Next, a little vocabulary which seemed to be a struggle on the podcast:

Eyepiece - The part of the scope closest the shooter which holds the ocular lens and focus adjustment.

Ocular lens - The lens you look through.  This is where the image is focused on.

Eyebox or non-critical eye relief - This is the qualitative measure of how quickly and easily you can get your eye in position to view the target.  This is the key with AR optics.  AR's are for war, hog hunting, coyote hunting, 3 gun, self defense, etc.  A scope/mount/setup which won't present me an image immediately is meaningless.

Eye relief - Distance which the reticle gives you a full view of the reticle.

Eyepiece focus - The part of the scope which allows you to get the reticle focused on the ocular as you see it.  There are 2 types.  Locking focus most commonly used by Leupold.  Fast focus. . .used by most other brands.  Fast focus is fast and easy to setup, but can be moved accidentaly.  Leupold's method is set it, lock it and forget it.  Since a rifle is for one person usually, I wish all were Leupold style.  Once locked, you KNOW it is good!

Zoom ring - Adjusts the magnification of a variable scope by turning this ring.  Some brands make a few models where the whole eye piece turns.  This is better with gloved hands. . .but is a pain with scope caps usually.  Whichever you choose, make sure this thing is going to turn easily and quickly when you need it to.

Magnification - This is the number of times smaller  or larger and object is or the number of times farther you see it at the same size.  I like 1x parallax free red dots for up close 0 - 50 yd work.  Actually out to 125 yds is not bad with a dot.  A 1-4x allows me to engage quickly from 10 foot to 200 yards pretty well.  I've shot deer at 250 yds with a 4x plex, so maybe I should say 250.  I find I need 6x to be moderately comfortable at 300 yards.  12x should get me to 1000 yards ok, but 25x would be ideal.  IMO, minimum magnification to distance is:

100 yds - 1x

200 yds - 4x

300 yds - 6x

500 yds - 8x

600 yds - 8x

800 yds - 10x

1000 yds - 12x

This is on a ~20" or so target.  Varmints you might want to double the magnification and even triple it at 1000 yds.

Quick Tip #1 - MGM Switchview or similar. That might make an average scope faster.  Super fast! SpectorDR Throwlever $2600

Erector tube - The inner lens assembly that is moved by the turrets for zeroing the scope.  This part is critical for the shooter, because it determines the usable scope diameter or light pathway, what focal plane and the quality of turret adjustments.  Unfortunately, you have to have very good critical reading skills to determine anything about this part from scope maker's information.

Objective - The part of the scope which holds the objective lens.  This lens and it's quality are the main contributors to the scopes brightness.

ED, HD, etc - Usually refers to a higher grade of glass material.

Grinding - The process of making the lens which is one of the main cost factors.  Generally speaking glass is ground for optics by a supplier.  These suppliers tend to supply most makers in their country.  <- This may be over generalized.  Generally speaking again, German, Leupold(US), Burris (US), Japanese, Philippines and then China is pretty much the order of quality, but there could be many exceptions..

Lens Coatings - These are put on the lenses of the scope to improve light transmission through the lens and minimize reflections inside and outside the scope.  Some also prevent fog or rain drops from building up.  The key is this can make a US Optics 24mm oj size be brighter than a Chinese 50mm obj.  Lens coating allow high end scopes and their users to "cheat" the exit pupil formula.

Exit Pupil - This is: EP = Obj diameter/magnification.  For example a Burris Fullfield E1 2-7 x 35.  On the high end, the EP is 5mm.  On the low end 17.5mm.  I find a scope with decent quality coatings and a 5mm exit pupil will see well at dusk and even past legal light.  At the low end 2 - 4x setting, this scope could be used in complete darkness with only a moonlit target.

Reticle: The place, usually a piece of glass where the crosshairs, ranging scale, mildots, etc are placed.  Generally speaking plex (+) is usually the cheapest and a Horus type ranging scale is the most expensive.  This is a key part in a scope's performance and cost.  Choose wisely.

Illuminated Reticle - This is where the reticle is lit by a small light.  Sounds great. . .Super a night! <-NOT!  I have not used a US optics IR, but the ones I've used were bright enough that even in red they hurt my night vision and caused a haze in the optic.  Not awful, but hard to use in pitch black night.  In a CQB situation, this is likely great.  In a dawn/dusk, this would be OK with good to great optics.  Most of the time. . .Total waste of money!

Focal Plane

First Focal Plane - This is where the target and the reticle change in size at the same rate as you adjust the zoom.  The meaning is that a ranging or BDC reticle are always usable regardless of zoom adjustment.

Second Focal Plane - This is where the target changes in size relative to the reticle you adjust the zoom.  The meaning is that a ranging or BDC reticles are only usable at one zoom level, or you need a chart to determine the reticles measurements at other zoom levels.  Look at Nikon Spot On.  An FFP would not change with magnification.

Parallax - This is the situation where the target is not focused on the eyepiece at the exact same focal plane as the reticle.  Simply put, if your eye is in a different spot than it was when you zero'd the gun, you will have parallax error, unless you have dialed the side focus or objective focus to move the target to the reticle's focal plane.  This has it's greatest effect at close range(<50 yards) or far range(putting a little dot on a really little target) and high magnification(>15x).  With a 3-12 over 10 yards and under 600 yards, I say "total waste of money.)

Enough terms!

Quick Tip #2 - Objective caps used on the eye piece are often more secure and simpler in operation.(Butler Creek brand)

A Basic How-to of Using a Scope

First, a scope should be carried on it's lowest power and objective(side) focus set at 150 yards, so targets which appear at point blank range can be engaged.  Second, when a target presents itself with time to adjust, the shooter should zoom to max power, adjust side/obj focus(fine tune by bobbing head while turning the side focus until the target does not move relative to reticle.), gather data(range/wind/target movement), calculate, adjust turrets/pick reticle aiming point, then fire at target.  Sometimes, the shooter needs to dial down from max power due to mirage or the need to see escape paths, etc.  <- That is where a high end FFP scope and/or a spotter really helps.  So, that is a very long process.  Targets which present themselves for shorter periods need shortcuts. . . .like that 25 yd whitetail buck who is moving when you see him.

Philosophies of Use

Point and Shoot - Shooting still or moving targets of ~15 - 20" aim point at 0 - 250 yards are probably best shot with a point and shoot scope.  This can be a basic 4x plex reticle, red dot, basic 3-9 variable, or a higher end optic dialed in to simplified settings. I would guess 90% of all scopes are being used this way

Point and Shoot + Range - This to me is my favorite AR compromise.  This is a pretty good setup out to 400 - 500 yards in good conditions with practice.  It is typically a 1-4, 1.5-6, 2-7, 3-9, 2.5-10, etc with a smaller objective and a BDC reticle.  The best example is something like a Burris Fullfield E1.  These add a BDC to the point and shoot type or in the Burris case, a BDC with wind. . .This type of scope is typically shot from positions like prone and the target is typically ranged visually or with a rangefinder and shot by shooting to a different aiming point on the BDC.  Fast and accurate.  Frankly, I'm getting a switchview lever here and taking shots at max magnification.  I have no need for a FFR reticle here, but if you go to a 4.5-14, then maybe you should be looking FFP, in case 14x isn't available to you.  I can't say for sure, but in general SFP is fine.  Also, side focus. . .Since the ideal scope in this range ends at 12x or so, I see no need. . .just slows me down.  Of the 90% who are point and shoot types, maybe 10% of them shoot enough to be better served by this type.  IMO, this is likely 15% of the market at best.  15% include stealing 10% from the previous group.

Full Turret Type or Advanced Reticle Scope - This is usually too much scope for an AR. . .Who wants a 15 lb AR!  These start out with the fixed power Super Sniper and go through the US Optics stuff.  They often weigh 20 oz plus, can be used as a hammer, have glass from the best glass makers and  are best moved by truck!  That said, my go to bolt rifle has a 3-12 Burris XTR which I consider this type and am quite happy with.  Beware of fakes. . .There are many $20 - $600ish fakes in this market.  Frankly, this scope can't be made for much under $600 and to really get what you want, think $3000 +.  In a word US Optics.  For fun, I configured my ideal scope. . .It was $3406. . .ouch!  Only in this style is a FFP reticle really valuable.

ARP 055P2 - Optics, a Different Perspective Part 2

Choosing my Own AR Optic

So, I promised how I picked my last AR scope.  First I watch NutNFancy's video on AR-15 scopes.

First, the gun is a self built AR-15 with a 17" A2 profile rifle gas barrel, rifle quad tube, Vltor EMOD, etc.  So, I wanted a scope which would show me max accuracy on 100yd paper (I thought 10x), but would still be quick into use for some informal 3 gun or rifle match(<2x plus good eyebox plus lightweight).  I also think of this gun being accurate out to 500 yards for a coyote or something similar(thinking BDC reticle).  So, my spec list:

Magnification - 2-8x, 2-7x, 2.5-10x, 2.5-8x

Exit pupil - Want 5 at max power so, 40, 35, 50, 40 objective sizes.  Wow! 40 - 50 obj is not light.

Weight - Want 12 oz. . .Better look small or Leupold. . .maybe Nikon Monarch with smaller obj

Lens coatings - Fully Multi-coated is a minimum for me.  Since I'm looking at smaller obj's, I had better be thinking Nikon Monarch 3, Leupold VX3, Zeiss, or better!  The better lines of Leupold and Nikon and Burris all have great matched lens coatings, IMO from looking through them in the store.

Eye Box - Better go to the store for testing.

Optics Tip #3 - In store testing how to. . .First, get the scope on the fake stock at an eye relief that you can full view quick.  Then aim at flat wall 25 - 100 yards away with nothing on it.  Focus the reticle with the eye piece focus perfectly.  Perfect is judged by lower slightly, blink and then snap the scope up and ask if the reticle is clear.  Good.  Then set the side focus(if required) to 150 yds.  Then look at objects near a light.  OK? How is the light affecting your view, the objects color, etc. Then look at the picture on the far wall or outside.  Really scrutinize it.  The guy has brown hair.  Is it the way it was when you saw it up close or less texture, less color, too much color, etc.  Ask if they have an optics chart or target on a wall.  If so, how do the lines look?  Are the straight, distinct, etc.  Also, how did things look at the edge for all targets?  Then, pick a 25 yd target.  How quick can you pull up and trigger a shot?  Maybe try again at 50 yds.  This pull up and shoot is all about eyebox.  Poor eye box on similar scopes will show up as feeling slow, or worse eye tired.

Cost - Well, this thing is going on an AR, so you have to leave room for the $150 + mount!  Uh, let's see, $300 +/- $100 for the scope.


Burris 2-7x35 Fullfield E1 -

Pros - Was on sale for $130, BDC has wind scale, power ring has GREAT feel, Burris coatings always render color well to my eye, eye box was good.

Cons - at $130 are the coatings good enough in the real world?, it was sold out the day I went for final selection.

Nikon 2-8x34 Monarch 3

Pros - .5 MOA adjustments, 12 mo same as cash(buy now, sell old scope later), $300, $20 off coupon, eye box was best of group, edge clarity best of all, color and contrast best of all.

Cons - Seemed a hair dim on 8x(hard to be sure), Not sure if it is better than the Burris(now at $200), zoom hard to grasp well. . .Needs a switchview likely at $60.

Leupold 2.5-8x36

Pros - It is a Leupold, weight  11oz, B&C reticle

Cons - Yellowish cast like many Leupold coatings, B&C reticle seems unfinished, $479 ($200 over spec), edge clarity not as good as Nikon, didn't handle a target near a bright light well

Zeiss 2-7x32

Pros - It is a Zeiss(coatings, mechanics, brightness,etc), very bright and clear, $350

Cons - Edge clarity poor, reticle huge. . .a deer might hide behind it at 300 yards, not BDC,

So, I chose the Nikon 2-8x36 Monarch 3.

I guess what I'm saying is that I felt your show didn't clearly tell me a better way to buy this scope. . .or frankly as good of a way to select this scope.  I think listeners don't need to hear the old spend more get better, glass costs as much or more than the rifle, etc.

Frankly, if I would have said AR glass for $1000, I think I would be looking at that scope and Burris XTR 1.5-6x40, IOR Valdada 2.5-10x42 hunting, Leupold 2.5-8x36 tactical, etc.  Those scope all have 1 thing in common near 20 oz weight!  They have better glass, but can I even use it in this scenario?  Also, who knows about eye box on these as it is an order and see what you get kind of deal.

Anyways, just trying to give you another viewpoint on selecting AR optics, mainly riflescopes.  I hope this was at least worth reading to you.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Ryan  Hey Guys!  Love the podcast! I\'m glad there\'s finally an informative show about everything AR on the scene. However,... Your recent podcast on optics was cursory at best and simply uninformed at various points. Most of the topics you covered were not explained sufficiently at all(!) After years of shooting, reloading, competing and tinkering with rifles and endlessly squeezing the utmost amount of accuracy I can out of rifles, I\'ve come to believe that if there is ONE thing a shooter should seriously invest in, it\'s optics. Of the two major components in a rifle-system; the rifle itself, and the optics,... the majority of the investment should be put into the optics. After all, a great optic can be moved from weapon to weapon and utilized on each.

Here are some comments, and corrections, on what you discussed:

Shooting Dirty: definitely true,... making sure that your bore has reached copper equilibrium is a key to consistent, predictable POI. This is a great (p)ossible (f)uture (s)how (t)opic (PFST), as cleaning the barrel is sooooo overdone by most shooters and in general, hurts accuracy.

Eye-relief: in general, the higher the magnification, the closer the shooters eye needs to be to the ocular lens, and the smaller the \'window\' in which the eye can see a clear eye-picture.

FOCUS: Great opportunity to talk about the difference between the \'ocular\' focus i.e. the adjustment found on the ocular lense that is used to bring the reticle into focus, and \'parallax\' adjustment, which is found on either the bell or the objective lens or more typically in recent years, on the left-hand side of the turret housing, and is used to adjust the depth-of-field or focal depth of the optic.

1st vs 2nd focal-plane: MIL-RADIAN is an \"ANGULAR\" form of measure, just like a DEGREE is an angular measurement, as is a Minute-of-Angle (MOA)...(PFST). A 2nd focal-plane scope means that the reticle is \'fixed\' and does not change in dimension throughout the range of magnification i.e. when you dial the power up/down, the reticle remains the same size throughout. In a 1st focal-plane scope, reticle changes size in direct relationship to the magnification i.e. the reticle \'grows\' when increasing magnification and \'shrinks\' when decreasing magnification,... the important point of which is that the reticle, and all its\' corresponding hash-marks (hold-overs), remain constant throughout the magnification range.(PFST)

Parallax: this is simply the depth of field or focal depth of the optic. Optics cannot maintain perfect focus on everything, no matter the distance, especially with high-magnification optics. Think of it as a focus-range for the optic i.e. out of the 1000-yards of range you\'re looking at through your scope, your only able to get a crisp focus on 50-yards of it,... and you use the parallax adjustment to dial-in, and out, at what distance that range will be.

Reticles (PFST): MIL-RAD, MOA, BDC,... these are the major \'types\' of reticle and deserve more attention,... in conjunction with this is the adjustments of the optic, i.e. 0.1 MIL-RAD /click, or 1/4 MOA/click,...etc. Matching the Reticle to the Adjustments,...etc. The pros and cons of going with a BDC reticle or BDC turrets,... Again,... (PFST)

Tube Diameter: 1-inch, 30mm, 34mm, 35mm. Has very LITTLE to do with the amount of light-transmission,... that\'s primarily linked to the objective diameter - after all that is where the light is gathered and transmitted down the tube. However, tube diameter is probably still the more important feature in that it is directly linked to the erector housing\'s ability to travel up/down i.e. the amount of MILRAD\'s, or MOA adjustment the optic can travel,... This also brings in the topic of canted bases and why they\'re a good idea for long range shooters, as well as how to properly calculate the amount of travel the erector has,...(PFST).

LIGHT - great opportunity to talk about the coatings on the lenses and that THAT is the MAJOR feature of great glass.

TURRETS - Again, 0.1 MIL-RAD /click, or 1/4 MOA/click, and matching the reticle...etc. (PFST)

FIXED POWER vs. VARIABLE POWER: durability, focal-plane, cost, features,...etc.

Bad purchases vs. good purchases,... talk to ME! My hope is to at least convince you that of ANYTHING you purchase, weapon/optic,... the OPTIC is the more important of the two. (PFST)

RETICLE: Duplex, Varmint, BDC, Mil-Dot, MILRAD-based, MOA-based, HORUS, Combo-Hybrid-Designer. In addition to providing hold-overs to the shooter, it can also serve as a great means of range estimation i.e. being able to utilize the reticle to \'range\' a target at an unknown distance.(PFST)

BRANDS: based on my own experience:

Burris - eh,... get what you pay for Redfield - eh,... get what you pay for SWFA - fair,... adjustments are mushy, but the \'features\' are well-thought out in general. Leupold - everything from OK, good, to FANTASTIC! One of the widest range of optics available. You get what you pay for. Nikon - OK,... good hunting scopes, but not really rugged. Swarovski - GREAT glass, but limited reticles Weaver - Good, solid, affordable scope. Nightforce - generally, great: rugged, heavy-duty, accurate, featureful... High-end models are top-tier. Vortex - Great designs. Everything from good (PST) to great (Razor) line of scopes USOptics - HIGHLY customizable, HIGH quality, LOTS of options. PREMIER Reticle - FANTASTIC,... ULTRA rugged, and featureful, Well thought out. Get what you pay for. Top tier Khales - Top tier, GREAT stuff,... but you pay for it. Schmidt & Bender - the optic by which ALL others-- are judged,... The summit,...AWESOME!(PFST)

Again, durability, reliability, repeatability,... not to mention quality of glass, adjustment/reticle combos. A scope, is an investment well worth making cautiously,... and is entirely based on the intended use of the scope. Maybe you only intend to put the scope on an AR15 shooting 62gr Green Tips,... at which point, a fixed ACOG NSN-TA01 with a BDC reticle would be appropriate,... or you\'re looking to throw a good optic on an AR15 chambered in 6.5 Grendel, at which point I\'d look at a variable 4-16x50 Vortex with a MIL-RAD based FFP reticle,... etc. (PFST)

There are a TON of topics that you could easily fill an hour with on this topic,... Let me know (PFST) .