ARP 087 - The Great Lubrication Debate


Welcome to Episode #087 of the AR15 Podcast. I’m your host Reed Snyder and with me today are both co-hosts, the long absent J.W. Ramp.  This is the podcast about your favorite black rifle!  This show is for you; whether you're building your first AR or you’ve been building ARs for years. There is something we can all do to take our black rifle to the next level.Brownells helps make this show possible. Don’t forget that Brownells, with their 100% lifetime satisfaction guarantee, is there for you anytime you have a problem, like when you can’t remove the taper pins from your new barrel to slip off the front sight base and you now have to find a new barrel.

100-011-235 – Seekins Precision – SP223 Upper Receiver w/Forward Assist

080-001-017WB – Brownells – .223 Wylde HBAR Rifle Gas 20" Barrel

714-000-021 – Precision Reflex, Inc. – Gen III Delta Carbon Fiber Forearm

Shop for AR-15 parts at Brownells.  Go to:


How to really participate in the show.

Main Topic:  Lubrication and the MSR

1.DI vs. Piston2.Lubrication Points


    • Hoppes
    • CLP
    • Slip 2000
    • Seal 1
    • Froglube (Repackaged roller coaster lube?
    • Militec
    • Motor Oil
    • Remington Oil
    • Royal Purple Gun Oil
    • Fireclean

4. Coatings and Finishes

    • Nickel Boron
    • Nickel Teflon
    • Nitride
    • Chrome


Tim C:  Reed, I'm an instructor-in-training in Project Appleseed. We do teach sling usage at our events. In fact, for me, it was the single most important thing that I learned when I first attended the event. If one does not learn proper sling usage while attending one of our events, attaining Rifleman status is almost impossible.

Secondly, the stock AR trigger can also be a limiting factor at one of our events. We teach the students to dry fire during their preparation period before each course of fire. When I first attended an event, I had a stock 9 lb. trigger in my AR. My forearm was so sore from just firing the various courses of fire that I had to save my strength for the next one rather than spend my time dry firing. The index finger is, of course, manipulated by a muscle in the forearm, and when you squeeeeeeze the trigger, you put extra stress on that muscle (which shouldn't be much). The more stress that muscle endures, the more unstable and shaky it becomes during the squeeze.

Don't misunderstand my fitness either. I am in no way an out-of-shape individual, but I couldn't get a new trigger in that rifle fast enough!

Michael D:  Hey guys. Great podcast, I listen every week. I recently completed my first ar build and loved the experience and the finished rifle runs great. I disassembled it to change the trigger and noticed the buffer was damaged. It appears that the back of the buffer is being pushed into the metal portion of the buffer. Is this normal wear or an indication of a larger problem? Thanks for any advice.

Arturo:  I was curious as to what the pivot and takedown pins go into on the upper receiver were called as well once you mentioned it. As usual, a quick web search provides the answer ... they are called "lugs" =) Thus there's a Front Pivot Pin Lug and a Rear Takedown Pin Lug.

Kiki:  hey guys, have a question for you....on a m4 ar15....does the buffer ever actually hit the rear end of buffer tube under fire or only when you pull in the charging handle???? since buffer has a recoil rubber bumper on it.....under normal firing does the buffer contact tube or with good spring it never reaches?????Myles:  Hello everyone, prepare for yet another random opinion on the ever expanding fractal that is the world of the AR-15.

I can't say anything about the S&W M&P rifle. I don't even know anyone who owns one, though I hear good things. But a Ruger 556 E was my first AR-15. I bought it shortly after seeing the movie act of valor, I would have bought a colt M4. But all the local shops were fresh out. The Ruger never malfunctioned on me and it was certainly accurate but I parted company with it some years ago because it just didn't seem right to me.

First of all cleaning the piston system was no great challenge. Due to the design of the Ruger system the average user is only going to be able to disassemble the area around the piston head. This part of the system was rather reminiscent of the Steyr AUG. It does keep the action cleaner, but at the cost of increased weight. Since the typical AR user is probably not going to be running through dozens of 40 or 60 round magazines (I certainly don't anymore). I don't think that piston systems are generally worth the hassle in 5.56 caliber guns. I have been told that 7.62 caliber DI AR's can get gunked up pretty badly but my information on that is a bit out of date.

I suppose weight was the main reason why I sold it. The fore end is a massive and quite uncomfortable length of aluminum. Ruger has a 7.62 version of this gun available now and I swear that the only thing that feels bigger on it compares to the 5.56 version is the magwell. The ends are not rounded off and can be a bit annoying. I shudder to think how uncomfortable the full quad rail SR 556 is without gloves. But more than that, the weight of the barrel, forend and piston were not well counterbalanced. The stock is a vanilla M4 type collapsible. This leaves the gun feeling mighty awkward, especially after a long session of shooting offhand.

If one is looking for a reliable, relatively cheap piston driven AR. Especially something to be used as a replacement for a mini 14 then I would say go ahead and get the Ruger. If one is interested in something a bit more comfortable I would recommend something else. Personally I would suggest building a weapon with an ALG defense or AP customs fore-end. They are the most comfortable "rails" I have used. Or one could just go with a perfectly standard A2 or MagPul fore-end and be done with it if you don't have a need to free float the barrel or bolt twelve pounds of accessories to your rifle.

Ps, ever hear of an outfit called Hera arms? High grade European Research for small Arms. They are a German company that makes AR-15 accessories. Their US importer is an outfit I have no idea what that name means, but they seem to import really snazzy looking stuff. I can't say yet what the long term reliability of their pistol grips and magazines are yet. But I think if apple computers made AR parts that their stuff would look like Hera arms products.

Ramon O:  Hi AR-15 Podcast crew, Hey Reed, I recently finished listening to episode 7.62 style AR rifles.  I have a 7.62x39 rifle that I run Tul-Ammo and Wolf.  FMJ, HP, and Soft Point of both 122 / 124 grain.  I have approx 1000+ rounds through it and AWESOME!!!.  It is my go to rifle now. It has regulated my first AR as my back-up rifle.

First AR (soon to be modified to a long distance shooter)

16" 1/7 5.56 Adams Arms FT upper, Stag lower, DD Piston Omega Rail 7,  ( recently changed to Samson Evolution 7" with 4" extension,  all Magpul furniture, Magpul BAD Lever, Magpul Sling QD 2, Magpul UBR stock, Phase 5 ambi charging handle, Battle arms FDE ambi safety, AAC Blackout non-mount brake, GGG QD bi-pod mount, Harris AR bi-pod, Troy HK style front / back metal back up sights, Burris PEPR QD sight mount, Leopold Mark AR 3x9 sight, Burris fast fire 2 red dot on a DD angled mount, Geissele Super Semi-Automatic trigger.

Second AR

16 1/10 7.62x39 TDS Guns Bonita, CA, Aero Precision lower / FT upper, YM SLC Super Light Carrier, Complete, Lancer 9" Carbon Fiber handguard, Magpul CTR stock, Hogue grip, Phase 5 ambi charging handle, Battle Arms ambi safety, Hiperfile 24c trigger, TDS 7.62x39 muzzle brake

Lancer 2" rail with Magpul light mount, LA Police Gear light Operator L1, Vortex red / green Strike Fire, Magpul front / back back up sight, Magpul QD 3 sling, Magpul Bad Lever, Thanks for a great show.

Ian K: Hi Reed, Anthony, and hope to see you soon JW, we miss you.

Quickly. Funny thing, as I was listening to ep. 086, I was torquing down the barrel nut on my build when you started discussing installing your new Brownells barrel, kinda funny!

Reed, you did mention applying anti-seize to the treads on the barrel nut as well as the barrel extension. Just to expand on that for the listeners who don’t know, the Mil-Spec Industry standard is MIL-G-21164, use AeroShell 33MS or equivalent, this is a graphite free lithium grease that per spec includes molybdenum disulfide. The grease you use is a very important for several reasons.

First is preventing corrosion between dissimilar metals (aluminum upper, steel barrel/ barrel nut). Second, you might want to remove that barrel at some point, it aids in disassembly.

Side note, a very popular assembly guide (Walt Kuleck) suggests it would be a good idea to use blue LocTite instead, suggesting that it might unify the two parts improving accuracy. Good luck with that! Please source that one before before taking his advice.

Finally, the torque spec is based on that grease so when setting in your barrel nut it is important to take the time to follow the tighten/ loosen/ tighten procedure.

Thanks again guys, as always keep up the good work,

Kenneth K:  Hey Reed, I am from Oklahoma and have an aunt and uncle in Benbrook.  We toured the Shilen Barrel factory in Ennis.  If you haven't it is well worth your time. Just call them and they will plan on having you come by.  Very friendly folks.  We spent an hour there and we never felt rushed.  They make custom AR Barrels too.  I enjoy the show but am usually 2 or 3 episodes behind.